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turtle yourself

Posted by notapotatoe on 2007-09-21 16:45:16
About Britney, Humberto Ramos and more...
First of it all, sorry, i made a type-writing error again in my second post. ( in the ''harvey'' post below)
I wrote that (referring to big pop superstar music and marvel/dc macro events): ‘‘Maybe you don't like it, maybe it's too pop and too ''for the masses'', but you can't say they represent the work of top professionals, and a good one.’’
And i wanted to say that: ‘‘Maybe you don't like it, maybe it's too pop and too ''for the masses'', but you CAN’T say they DON’T represent the work of top professionals, and a good one.’’

I mean, both comic companies macroevents and big popstar music products are done by some of the best professionals in the bussiness. (Millar on crisis, Morrison on upcoming Final crisis etc. and at the same time the instrumental composers and studio musicians who record britneys, or madonnas, or beyonce’s songs are top of the top too, just for example hear the track ‘‘My prerrogative’’ by Britney, oh my god, just hear to the instruments if you don’t like how she sings this song, but the basslines, the drums, the other instruments are clearly interpreted by some of the best musicians of all the music industry).

Pseudo sherlock made a lot of interesting points regarding the pop culture, and the big companies produc ts (both comic companies and discographical).I think that for example britney’s music, or marvel or dc macroevents are not art per-se, but they are ‘‘comercial art’’, a kind of art anyway. If it’s a kind, it’s art finally, pop art, like it or not but it’s truth. No britney-hater can come here and say for example that the basslines or the drums or the guitars of her music are ‘‘crap’’, those are clearly some of the best musicians in the bussiness doing their best work.
And i am sure they do their work in a good mood, in a good atittude giving their best, i don’t think they just made it ‘’for the money’’ (maybe some, but not everyone). Why wouldn’t they enjoy their work? Of course those musicians have a lot of other projects some of them more personal, as do the comic writers and artist of the big comic macroevents. Using the example of Morrison. Is going to be Final Crisis or AS Superman the best work of Morrison? I doub’t it. His best work is going to remain his Doom Patrol, or Animal man or Invisibles or ‘‘Gothic’’, more personal works IMO. Does that mean that he will work in Final Crisis only for the money? I don’t think so, i know he will give all his professionalism and enthusiasm to do a great work.

My point is, i dont think comic macroevents represent the best of what’s done in the comic industry. I know that the best of the best of what’s been doing in the comic industry right now might be a series that probably is selling 30k or less monthly. Those kind of series. The same with music, for example britneys music or to put a more recent example Rihannas music don’t represent the best music that it’s done in the industry right now BUT, in both cases those products are done by some of the best professionals in the medium ( both comic writers and artist or music composers, studio musicians) and have, undoubtely, certain levels of quality, at least in the technical aspects. Now, those macro products are not the best of the best, but they aren’t either the crapiest of the crap ( as some haters or ‘‘intellectual-posers’’ like to say about any ‘‘big companies’ big products’’ without further thinking or analysis). As i said before, those products have certain levels of quality, if you don’t wanna recognize the ‘’art’’ quality levels, ok, but you have to recognize at least the technical quality levels.

Now on another point. Can those ‘‘big, for the masses, commercial etc.’’ kind of products can reach the level of ART?, can them win artistic prizes? i suposse that yeah, why not?? Why would’t Civil War#1 win a Harvey prize?
C’mon, prizes, all of them, are just a social convention. A prize is seven guys in an office deciding what’s good and what’s bad, as ridiculous as that. To win a prize or to never win a prize , doesn’t mean anything. Maybe it does make your work be more known, but that’s it. It doesn’t mean that something with a prize is better that something without one or vice-versa. I don’t care if it’s the harveys, or the eisners, cannes, or the oscars or the nobels, through history i have noticed that those institutions give their prizes to very good products (comics, movies, books, etc.) and creators, and in the same unexpected manner, they give it to mediocre products or creators alike. So c’mon i don’t buy that atittude of ‘‘this prize is only for quality art, only for non-commercial products, only for real art blah blah blah’’. So Civil War #1 congrats for your prize, you deserved it.

Finally, about the Humberto Ramos controversy, well he is a personal of mine favorite too. My personal favorite artist in mainstream comics are pretty much: Cheung, Romita Jr., Ramos, Maleev, Sook, Byrne and some other guys. But i accept that for other people, maybe they ‘’suck’’ or are mediocre artists. What can i do? It’s up to each one of us to decide what kind of art we enjoy. In the same line, i know a lot of guys consider Geoff Johnes as one of the best writers, while i consider him one if not the most mediocre and overrated writer in comic books history and i am glad he’s not working for Marvel, (and i hope he won’t in the future).

BUT, here’s the problem. Sometimes you can say that something is ‘’crap’’ because you understand what you are watching or reading and you don’t like it, but there’s people who say that something is ‘’crap’’ just because they don’t understand what they are watching or reading, or just because they are haters. I have heard a lot of guys in comic shops saying that Romita Jr. Art sucks. And i think, how can it be? It is really that those guys just ‘’doesn’t like it’’, or is it that those guys simple can’t difference between art and crap? in some cases, it’s because people don’t like what they see or read, but in another cases it’s just the opinion of idiots, simple as that.

Ok That’s all, i hope you Mr. Brevoort read this!!!

Guido Cuadros F.A.
Lima, Perú.



Posted by Los Shapis on 2007-09-21 21:55:10
...
This was so cool to see. Thanks a lot for sharing it!

Posted by werebearloony on 2007-09-22 12:47:36
About Britney, Humberto Ramos and more...
First of it all, sorry, i made a type-writing error again in my second post.
I wrote that (referring to big pop superstar music and marvel/dc macro events): ‘‘Maybe you don't like it, maybe it's too pop and too ''for the masses'', but you can't say they represent the work of top professionals, and a good one.’’
And i wanted to say that: ‘‘Maybe you don't like it, maybe it's too pop and too ''for the masses'', but you CAN’T say they DON’T represent the work of top professionals, and a good one.’’

I mean, both comic companies macroevents and big popstar music products are done by some of the best professionals in the bussiness. (Millar on crisis, Morrison on upcoming Final crisis etc. and at the same time the instrumental composers and studio musicians who record britneys, or madonnas, or beyonce’s songs are top of the top too, just for example hear the track ‘‘My prerrogative’’ by Britney, oh my god, just hear to the instruments if you don’t like how she sings this song, but the basslines, the drums, the other instruments are clearly interpreted by some of the best musicians of all the music industry).

Pseudo sherlock made a lot of interesting points regarding the pop culture, and the big companies produc ts (both comic companies and discographical).I think that for example britney’s music, or marvel or dc macroevents are not art per-se, but they are ‘‘comercial art’’, a kind of art anyway. If it’s a kind, it’s art finally, pop art, like it or not but it’s truth. No britney-hater can come here and say for example that the basslines or the drums or the guitars of her music are ‘‘crap’’, those are clearly some of the best musicians in the bussiness doing their best work.
And i am sure they do their work in a good mood, in a good atittude giving their best, i don’t think they just made it ‘’for the money’’ (maybe some, but not everyone). Why wouldn’t they enjoy their work? Of course those musicians have a lot of other projects some of them more personal, as do the comic writers and artist of the big comic macroevents. Using the example of Morrison. Is going to be Final Crisis or AS Superman the best work of Morrison? I doub’t it. His best work is going to remain his Doom Patrol, or Animal man or Invisibles or ‘‘Gothic’’, more personal works IMO. Does that mean that he will work in Final Crisis only for the money? I don’t think so, i know he will give all his professionalism and enthusiasm to do a great work.

My point is, i dont think comic macroevents represent the best of what’s done in the comic industry. I know that the best of the best of what’s been doing in the comic industry right now might be a series that probably is selling 30k or less monthly. Those kind of series. The same with music, for example britneys music or to put a more recent example Rihannas music don’t represent the best music that it’s done in the industry right now BUT, in both cases those products are done by some of the best professionals in the medium ( both comic writers and artist or music composers, studio musicians) and have, undoubtely, certain levels of quality, at least in the technical aspects. Now, those macro products are not the best of the best, but they aren’t either the crapiest of the crap ( as some haters or ‘‘intellectual-posers’’ like to say about any ‘‘big companies’ big products’’ without further thinking or analysis). As i said before, those products have certain levels of quality, if you don’t wanna recognize the ‘’art’’ quality levels, ok, but you have to recognize at least the technical quality levels.

Now on another point. Can those ‘‘big, for the masses, commercial etc.’’ kind of products can reach the level of ART?, can them win artistic prizes? i suposse that yeah, why not?? Why would’t Civil War#1 win a Harvey prize?
C’mon, prizes, all of them, are just a social convention. A prize is seven guys in an office deciding what’s good and what’s bad, as ridiculous as that. To win a prize or to never win a prize , doesn’t mean anything. Maybe it does make your work be more known, but that’s it. It doesn’t mean that something with a prize is better that something without one or vice-versa. I don’t care if it’s the harveys, or the eisners, cannes, or the oscars or the nobels, through history i have noticed that those institutions give their prizes to very good products (comics, movies, books, etc.) and creators, and in the same unexpected manner, they give it to mediocre products or creators alike. So c’mon i don’t buy that atittude of ‘‘this prize is only for quality art, only for non-commercial products, only for real art blah blah blah’’. So Civil War #1 congrats for your prize, you deserved it.

Finally, about the Humberto Ramos controversy, well he is a personal of mine favorite too. My personal favorite artist in mainstream comics are pretty much: Cheung, Romita Jr., Ramos, Maleev, Sook, Byrne and some other guys. But i accept that for other people, maybe they ‘’suck’’ or are mediocre artists. What can i do? It’s up to each one of us to decide what kind of art we enjoy. In the same line, i know a lot of guys consider Geoff Johnes as one of the best writers, while i consider him one if not the most mediocre and overrated writer in comic books history and i am glad he’s not working for Marvel, (and i hope he won’t in the future).

BUT, here’s the problem. Sometimes you can say that something is ‘’crap’’ because you understand what you are watching or reading and you don’t like it, but there’s people who say that something is ‘’crap’’ just because they don’t understand what they are watching or reading, or just because they are haters. I have heard a lot of guys in comic shops saying that Romita Jr. Art sucks. And i think, how can it be? It is really that those guys just ‘’doesn’t like it’’, or is it that those guys simple can’t difference between art and crap? in some cases, it’s because people don’t like what they see or read, but in another cases it’s just the opinion of idiots, simple as that.

Ok That’s all, i hope you Mr. Brevoort read this!!!

Guido Cuadros F.A.
Lima, Perú

Posted by Los Shapis on 2007-09-22 14:59:06
Tom, no offense, I love you, man, but if you mess with the turtles again, I'm going to have to break you like the asian trix rabbit from Family Guy.

"You share direct market!"

Posted by Dr. Chaos on 2007-09-22 18:14:54
i would want to know how u can get u comic book seen in stores? i mean im not finished with it but when i do i would like to see in stores. i would want to be famus like the autor that wrote spider-man. i want my comic to be a moive!


Posted by iceboyju on 2007-09-22 19:53:30
Great Stuff.
You're right, it's a wonder that the Retread Funnies didn't get published. Not only because of the success of Daredevil at the time but because the writing on that one page alone is so great. Still, I imagine if the Daredevil team had a problem with it, it's understandable they might wish it to be pulled.

By the way, before I forget Tom, I've no idea whether you'll read this or not, but did you happen to catch the Jonathan Ross documentary, "In Search Of Steve Ditko"? I remember you mentioning it a while back in one of your blogs and it aired this week.

Posted by Carzy on 2007-09-22 20:04:09
Hilariosity!
Wow, that Retread Funnies sounds like it would be a real kick to read! Even just the first page is great!

Posted by Vastion on 2007-09-23 21:28:17
TMNT
Tom's not kidding, TMNT really is a parody of Frank Miller's DD (as well as a few of his other works like Ronin). For instance:

DD & the Turtles both gain their powers from exposure to radioactive goo that falls out of a truck
Turtles' blind sensei is Splinter, DD's blind sensei is Stick
Turtles' ninja nemeses are The Foot, DD's are The Hand

Posted by CylverSaber on 2007-09-24 09:21:52
I like some of these covers
These really say ideas, ideas, ideas Oh and originality. There pretty cool. Im assuming these comics didnt do well becasue I dont remember them except maybe the Daredevils they kinda look familiar only I think I may have seen them in color.

Posted by terciera on 2007-11-07 20:17:33